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Post by Tou-kun on Feb 17, 2011 21:21:09 GMT -5
This is actually a serious thread, so I'd appreciate everyone act accordingly.
I've been informed that there are complaints as to my behavior with the members. So I want to know what yous think of me so I can potentially work on it. Say whatever you like as long as you don't start flaming.
Carry on.
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Post by Kumade on Feb 17, 2011 21:27:16 GMT -5
This is from my viewpoint--
Tou, I see you as having two different sides. One moment you can be amazingly chill, lucrative to talk to and really nice when you answer questions. I know I pester you alot on AIM, and generally you are respectful, even back on Haitoku. However you can be a bit too aggressive at times. Sometimes your warnings and replies are un-founded or uncalled for, both of which can lead to quick deterioration of a relationship between staff and member when you are handling jutsu or something of that sort.
I'd go and get examples, but I don't feel that such is needed. If you'd like, I will. Regardless, it's just that at times you come off as too aggressive to members and can tend to come off as someone whose not very pleasant to work with. To me this can come as a shock sometimes given how chill you can act in the c-box.
If anything, I'd just suggest working on a bit more professionalism. Try not to be aggressive and don't take your job as Jutsu Mod so seriously. I realize it is important for a site to have a serious jutsu mod, but there is no need to get so aggressive, angry, etc over something meant for just fun. This advice could also be taken by a few other members of staff, but this is not about them.
once again, if you want examples of your past behavior that I think could have been executed better, I'll go and find them.
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Kinzoku
[下忍] Genin
member is errant
「 P I M P H A N D 」
Posts: 70
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Post by Kinzoku on Feb 17, 2011 21:31:28 GMT -5
Honestly, I don''t know about anyone else but you're nice to me. Even helpful at times.
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Post by odawara mamoru on Feb 17, 2011 21:48:11 GMT -5
Do jutsu by yourself for a bit (correctly) and you'll see why Tou's so "aggressive". In a perfect world, everyone can be nice and get along and there won't be any tension, aggressiveness, etc. This forum of all places is nothing of the sort. I'm not even staff and when I see dumb stuff (jutsu, posts, profiles, whatever) going on I just have to close Konaha and go do something else. Tou unfortunately doesn't have that luxury since it's his job to deal with that stuff on a daily basis. And when he's doing said stuff he's usually carrying like 90% of the load in his field. The guy doesn't even have time to RP here anymore because of it.
Whether it's people trying to register outrageous jutsu, or jutsu they're trying to sneak by, or whatever, it gets old. You get tired of seeing that junk. Speaking from personal experience, I'd probably be just as "aggressive" if not more so if I had to redo the stuff I did for 3-4 months on V1, seeing what I saw and everything.
So--no. If people think you're too aggressive or whatever then they can just go cry in their baby blanky.
;[
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Post by OUGA OUJOU on Feb 17, 2011 22:08:05 GMT -5
Watch something happen right after I say this-
People. Please do not poke the staff.
At times, I'm sure everyone on this site has been a bit rough around the edges but from what I've seen so far it has yet to be for malicious purposes. Demanding prompt service from admins and demanding that they treat you like the Gum Drop Prince or Candy Cane Princess might not fly. I'm sure that if the staff, any staff member, were to overtly put the screws to someone for no reason then the members would rise up with one voice and call for an apology or something. But the staff are people for heaven's sake; they have jobs, they have parents, they have siblings, they have problems, and yes, they also have a duty to we the members. So cut them a friggin break already.
If you've ever gone into a retail store and wondered why the service was so shitty that you walked out wanting to torch the place- it was probably because the workers felt underpaid and or under-appreciated. The admins here, to my knowledge, don't get paid so if we add to that already unbalanced equation that they feel like they have to constantly be walking on eggshells then they might just leave us and go elsewhere. Or they might snap and shove someone's head up their keister. Y'know what? Go ahead and replace that might with "it's only a matter of time until".
Tou, I'll be straight up with you. You are not always rainbows and sunshine. But to the best of my remembrance you've never gone out of your way to be mean. If that ever changes I might have to take back all these semi-nice things I just said in the staff's defense but, honestly, I probably won't because whoever gets that sharp end of the pointy stick will probably deserve it. So lemme sum this up by saying, if you or any of the rest of the staff ever decide to bitchslap the living hell outta somebody please make sure they do deserve it. So the rest of us can have a collective laugh instead of making these threads to try and heal our wounded brethren.
Now, I'll stop riding the staffers nut and let the rest of you get in while the getting's good.
P.S.- Seeing two staff members, in as many days, making threads where they are seeking to resolve problems with members makes me think the staff here might not be so bad . . . .
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Post by Tou-kun on Feb 17, 2011 22:12:46 GMT -5
Don't know who made this an announcement. It's not nearly that important. Carry on though. I appreciate the feedback I'm getting.
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Post by Professor Badass!! on Feb 17, 2011 23:06:07 GMT -5
I was really considering not posting here since largely anything I say can be easily dismissed with just Shimada and Tou butting heads or something.
But I’ll say a few things; elaborate on what I feel necessary, then I’ll be done.
I’m not going to critique your criteria on rulings, how you do jutsu, or any of that. In reality, that’s trivial to the major concern is how your attitude ‘can’ come off. I honestly think people would see more eye to eye with your judgments as a staff member and not feel begrudged if you did without the “You fail, go cry about it” or being brutally honest to the point you’re attacking character.
It’s hard to take that kind of person seriously when they tell someone to curb their attitude but can be expected, to the point of infamy, of verbally chastising the same individual. And it makes it even more of a futile argument when it seems nothing can be done about it or the impression is said staff member doesn’t care.
I don’t know what your intentions with the future of the site or whether you care for the kind of community you’re an admin of, but an often successful component to a decent forum community is not being a part of the antagonism and hostility that naturally comes with putting several people of varying backgrounds into the same place. No one is going to demand you get along with everyone, but it largely helps if you don’t alienate the member base with jumping at the gun to deliver punishments, warning people without mediation, or calling people’s creative works useless or fail.
I’m paraphrasing at this point so let’s move beyond that. But one of the better words of the hour was Professionalism. It wouldn’t do anyone any harm to entertain the prospect of that. You’ll find out that if you’re more approachable, that you actively communicate with the members minus the bite, and that you recognize that everyone here is just trying to escape into a fantasy of martial arts, magic, and mythology-rather than waiting in line to run into the business end of bitter administration and then jump into the fires of a less than hospitable community-you’ll be impressed how much people will be receptive of your position. You’ll see that even though your job is relatively thankless, the appreciation of the work you do and the commitment you have to the site is not unnoticed and without gratitude.
Back when these roles were reversed, as a staff member I heard, but wasn’t keen on really listening to every complaint or staff bashing because I felt that parties were more interested in lashing out at the staff rather than trying to support a site they cared about. Though that’s long in the past, what’s still evident that the root of anyone’s frustration, whether with your job or your character, is more chances than none nestled with their enjoyment of the site.
If you look at it that way, rather than assuming the role of having to police everything like the Gestapo(jokingly), then I think that would remedy quite a bit of any frustration you have(if you do) with your job.
I would rather not have to wait for another Super bowl to have as much fun as I did watching the game and enjoying our jovial play-by-play.
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Post by Ken. on Feb 17, 2011 23:15:30 GMT -5
Personally speaking, I've never thought you were rude, mean, or an asshat. Like it's said above, your position on the site doesn't necessarily allow you to be buddy-buddy with folks all the time. Sometimes (even myself included) may make something beyond ignorant and expect it to be approved only to have it denied and even try to fight to get it approved. Whether in the wrong because they're being incoherent and hard-headed, or simply because they worked hard on what they wanted approved as long as I can remember you've tried to remain civil and make sure they can prove why something is plausible. If not, they don't get it as they shouldn't because after all; if you can't explain why something logically (well least in this universe) goes boom then you shouldn't have it in the first place.
Even though I've never dealt with a large mass of people like the one back at V1 or even the people here I've done a bit of mess work with acting as a staff member else where. So I can honestly understand a minute portion of the frustrations that result in a facepalm, double facepalm, triple facepalm, and the god awful quadruple facepalm. So to be to the point: No, I don't think you're a bad man. I think that if it wasn't for your "I'm not taking your shit" attitude then the site would fall into a state of crisis (not saying the other staff wouldn't do anything) and explode like the ending of Independence Day. So stick to your ways man and save us from our own ridiculousness.
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Post by Ataisuru Sonzai on Feb 18, 2011 1:37:12 GMT -5
Most of the points made are relevant.
I guess I can only sum up personally with:
I think your overall logic and method of dealing with jutsu is mostly consistent. There are times when that consistency doesn't hold, but I guess that's bound to happen, and is usually in the lower percentile of the whole. I think the main issue is the switch between professionalism and the 'bad attitude'; I personally respond better to sincere, logical reasoning - as opposed to an attitude and being told (paraphrasing) 'No. Not happening. Go cry.', etc, etc.
For me, I like to give respect to others, and it's nice when that manner is returned - it's not expected, but it's nice to have reciprocated.
Also, while the sheer volume of jutsu might make it your choice to not delve into a million-and-one solutions or avenues for players to look at, suggestion-wise, I think offering to help find a workable means is a lot better than out rightly stating 'No', and leaving it at that. I believe that if a suggestion or hint was offered, players would be less inclined to argue about the decision - because while the jutsu staff put in a lot of time and effort to accept and deny, so too do players put in a lot of time and effort to create them (regardless of how 'lame', 'stupid', or 'pathetic' they may seem).
And there's just something really vexing about seeing 'No. Not happening.' in response to an idea that may have taken hours to compose and prepare - and the solution to the unintended 'situation' might be something as simple as a reason (again, which mostly happens anyway).
But, at the end of the day, I consider all staff like the PR for the board, and when you see attitudes flying from those in charge, it's not pleasant. At least from my standpoint. So, all I'd suggest is just be firmly courteous and people won't have anything to complain about.
Some can handle attitude, some can't. It's just how people are.
At the same time, I would like to express my distaste for those members of the community who outright insult or condemn other members and their ideas in a public manner (such as the c-box).
It's gotten to the point where I just see constant dissing, cussing and call outs, and I don't bother speaking in any OOC capacity beyond offering assistance to others should they use the c-box for it.
I don't believe there's a need for that kind of behavior. Period.
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Post by Yasora on Feb 18, 2011 1:45:31 GMT -5
... Um. Yeah. Just be yourself. At the end of the day you cannot save the world, right?
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Post by Bunny =n.n= on Feb 18, 2011 5:58:37 GMT -5
Normally I hate speaking my mind on staff and what not because I hate confrontation or the idea that anyone might dislike me, but as it is request of the thread, I suppose I shall.
To sum things up, I agree with Kaemon/Shimada/Sonzai. Normally you seem really cool and nice, but there are times when you seem to just get way too stressed or angry about having to do jutsu.
One example - I had been waiting for jutsu on Chishio for nearly a month without a reply from any mod. I bumped it once a week and it was still never seen. I mentioned waiting for an extended amount of time in the cbox, and Kyuji very kindly told me I should say something to other jutsu staff about it, and because of the long wait, nobody would get mad at me. Before then I never said anything because it is a rule to not pester staff about that stuff, but Kyuji suggested I should and assured me it was fine.
So several days later, when I was finally on with another mod besides Kyuji, which was you, I brought it up to you in a way that I thought was very kind and mature. A few minutes later I saw the thread reply that most of my stuff was denied. However, I didn't even mind that, seeing as you gave explanations as to why everything was denied. What got me, was the following c-box comment "There. Now leave me alone." I mean, I was not mean or pressuring in any way, and I feel like by doing what another staff suggested I do, I had pissed you off and made an enemy. >.>
I know I am creepy as hell when it comes to RP, but I am actually a very nice person that wants everyone to be his friend because I'm weird like that. To be fair, I know that being a staff member is difficult and stressful, especially a jutsu mod. I know there are a LOT of jutsu all the time and you seem to be the one doing it 90% of the time. But wouldn't adding more jutsu staff be the solution to that? You wouldn't have to be the only one handling that huge workload, you'd be able to relax more often without worry, and could hopefully RP more often which I do believe everyone looks forward to you doing. =)
That is all. Hope all is cool.
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Post by Tou-kun on Feb 18, 2011 16:42:46 GMT -5
I do have a few things to say given the concerns that have been brought to my attention.
Now, I know I can be aggressive, blunt, intimidating, and what have you. And that's just who I am. I feel personally, that I rarely put who I am into jutsu until people start being hard-headed and rude, but you're welcome to disagree with me on that. But there comes a point where you're not arguing how I act, but who I am, and how you are affected by who I am. I am a blunt person. My mother raised me to not sugarcoat. And therefore, I will not. That is non-negotiable. If you have a problem with how straight-forward I am, you and I would both benefit from you pretty much telling me not to review your stuff. At some point, you have to stop analyzing what I'M doing and how that's "wrong" and how how you're looking at it may be wrong. This world, I find, thinks blunt people are mean, when in reality, that's just how we call things. If you're too sensitive to handle that, then that stops being my problem and becomes yours. Like I said, just say the word and I'll stop looking at your stuff. It'll make us both a lot happier. I, personally, think the fact that the other staff like to sugarcoat things and are all rainbows and sunshine makes me look worse than I actually am. Once again, you're welcome to disagree.
Another thing being said is that I call people's things lame and stupid and whatnot. I don't. I searched the jutsu board and the word stupid came up twice. Both times by the people REGISTERING the jutsu and not myself. I tell people to go cry about their jutsu when they get an attitude with me. And at that point, I think "professionalism" goes out the window. Because I don't get paid for this, and I don't do it for my health, so when someone has the nerve to come at me stink I will return such. Once again, non-negotiable. What I will say is that I do carry an attitude that is unnecessary. To you, Bunraku, I apologize. Telling you to leave me alone was wrong. There was actually no reason to say that.
As for me denying people's things with no reason... I don't believe I've ever done that. Feel free to correct me with actual evidence. But I feel a lot of frustration coming from the members comes from a general misunderstanding of my duties. I don't actually have to GIVE you any reason for anything. As long as I'm not denying your jutsu for the sake of being an asshole, I don't have to sit there and tell you why it's denied and how you can make it better. When that starts happening, it becomes me making jutsu for you which will never happen. Even such, I still make the time to tell everyone why every single jutsu that I'm denying is denied. It was your job to figure out why it was denied in the first place, yet I already did that for you. So, yes, I get a little frustrated when people ask me to help them fix their jutsu.
Another point, I want everyone to think on this. When a profile mod says someone's jonin profile isn't up to par, is a reason required? No. So why are reasons being asked of me? Why is so much more being asked of me? It's not my job to give it, so please, stop.
With all of this in mind, I'm sure it'll be a surprise when I say that I help pretty much EVERYONE who IMs me about their jutsu. I have pretty much made people's jutsu for them, despite the fact that I just said I don't want to. I do it anyway when you IM me. Why? Because it shows you actually give two shits about your jutsu. Not that I care, but if you're ballsy enough to IM me over it, I might as well help. So I don't appreciate people saying I'm not helpful, when they haven't exhausted all the pathways to be helped. I especially don't appreciate it, and I'm speaking to you now Katsuo, when people KNOW that I help them over IM, and say I don't help. THAT is irritating.
I'm going to make moves to make sure I'm not overtly rude to anyone of the bat, because I know it can perceived that way. And that might stem from my general frustration of having to review people's jutsu and not just me being blunt. But at the same time, I have to ask the members to work with me; to understand all that's required of me, and your heightened expectations for me (why they are there, I don't know). To be considerate of the fact that most likely, after I finish your jutsu there's a page more waiting, or that I just finished a page and you're the last one. And lastly, and I'm going to put this bluntly, to get over themselves and if they really don't understand something, contact me personally about it. If you sit there and mope (sp?) and smite me about it, it's not going to make me like YOU either. And I feel like people are going 20% and expecting me to fill the other 80%. If this were a normal business relationship, I would not argue over that, but it's not. I'm a volunteer, not an employee, and that isn't being taken into account.
>____> So... yeah.
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Post by Yasora on Feb 18, 2011 17:15:00 GMT -5
Don't take this out of context because honestly, whether you believe or not, I don't mean this how it sounds--if in fact you think I'm coming hard at you for whatever reason.
But, it's just like you said. You're a volunteer. So when you're going around saying people stuff is this and that in the C-box, that's why they catch feelings with the things you say. I am sure, while most of the site would probably want you to be jutsu staff (excluding the few, whoever they may be), I am sure, although I may be wrong, no one required you to be Jutsu Staff here. And even if they did, you could've denied.
Also--like you said, you don't HAVE to explained to people who their stuff is fail, that's a luxury that they, we have. Hell you could use those exact words albeit unprofessional, and I'm sure no one would take too much offense. But the C-box comments seem to sting more for some reason. My guess is that it feels more personal.
So when you go around saying something sucks in regards to Jutsu it tends to get people a little pissy -- I've been in chats where members (who shall remained unnamed unless otherwise noted) have complained about your C-box comments more than your rulings themselves.
This is just what I see from my eyes and what I've been told. My statement on this still stands. My mother is a true black woman and she told me "Don't let anyone ever change you, if they do just ignore them and let them look stupid." I'm sure you heard something like this before... And y'know they say mother knows best.
In my very own opinion I'd say that you could be a little less brash, even when you're joking around. Then again, it is joking. Right?
I've said my piece. I'm barely here these days to comment on anyone else's post, not that I read them, anyways. Peace.
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Post by Katsuo on Feb 18, 2011 19:17:06 GMT -5
I'd just like to say, Tou, that I made mention multiple times of how low in percentile my points occurred - as in, not too often, but perhaps enough to be relevant to what others are saying.
I also mentioned the not being willing to help with Jutsu (with the disclaimer that again, which mostly happens anyway - as in, you usually do) because of one or two specific conversations we've had that have resulted in you telling me it's your prerogative to help or not, when you wanted to or not; and I didn't feel so much as you were wrong, and you should help everyone no matter what, as it was more a case of me feeling that such deciding who and when could be considered 'selective'.
But, again, on the whole I've stated it's not often. As it stands, most of our Jutsu threads result in a good logical debate typically resulting in a state of workable Jutsu following the gain of a middle-ground.
Don't think I'm out to get you. I'm not. I was just offering some of my observations, and at the end of the day know you're a person just like everyone else...
EDIT: Also, you may have noticed I've stopped IMing you now. That was due to our last few conversations being interpreted by me as you being short and/or annoyed, and an instance where you mentioned about 'wishing people would just stop IMing you about Jutsu', in your group chat room, which made me feel like I was only annoying and irritating you because I had just spoken to you about some Jutsu - so I stopped.
If this impression was wrong, and you didn't mean me specifically, that was my mistake.
I just thought it would be good to be honest about why I don't IM you anymore, since you mentioned me in an example and were honest about how my opinion (above) was for you.
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Post by Tou-kun on Feb 18, 2011 22:59:55 GMT -5
I don't have my logs, but I believe you were nearing the point where you were asking me to correct jutsu for you. It was at such a point where I told you I cannot walk you through it all. Which I cannot. It's not selective. I don't make ANYONE'S jutsu for them unless there's something in it for me.
As for me wishing people wouldn't IM me about jutsu; I wish they wouldn't. But they do anyway, and probably won't stop since I won't stop helping them. I do it to myself I suppose. You can continue to not IM me if you please. Yes, I will be annoyed with you if you do, why? Because I don't like having jutsu rule my entire experience online. Does that mean I won't help you? No. You've IMed me before, I've been annoyed, and helped you anyway. It all depends if you're willing to get over the fact that I'm annoyed, and get the help you need. Once again, there comes a point where it stops being my problem. You can't run around living your Konaha-life based on my mood.
That goes for you and anyone else who is hesitant to IM me. If I didn't want to help through IM, I would have taken down my AIM a long time ago. Yet, it's still there in my mini-profile.
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Post by Katsuo on Feb 18, 2011 23:09:09 GMT -5
I'm going to remove myself from this thread. I was trying to offer opinions like asked, but instead have been singled out. I've tried to remain helpful, being respectfully honest, but now I'm just leaving this to whatever conclusion it gets.
Thank you.
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Post by Professor Badass!! on Feb 18, 2011 23:17:56 GMT -5
I'm going to make moves to make sure I'm not overtly rude to anyone of the bat, because I know it can perceived that way.
I think, if the feedback everyone's offered has lead to where you'll actively make efforts in that regard and in return the members be more understanding and considerate of your position, I think we've done pretty good.
Not to prematurely suggest closing a civil discussion but I think we've all gotten the responses and clarity in the situation that anything else is either redundant or risks taking this process backwards.
Can we de-rail this with funny images now?
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Post by Tou-kun on Feb 19, 2011 0:15:02 GMT -5
yous just mad'cuz i'm stylin' on y'all
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Post by Professor Badass!! on Feb 19, 2011 0:29:21 GMT -5
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lol♥
Junior Member
member is crazy!
Stealin' yo cookies!
Posts: 59
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Post by lol♥ on Feb 19, 2011 0:34:42 GMT -5
Haters gonna hate.
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