Handseals.

[Hanzae]

The amount of handseals used in a technique are relative to the skill of the user. Personally, I've always thought of this but I've never said a word since I believed that the system worked fine the way it was back in Konaha V1. But I found this ruling by Tou:

Link.

This is nothing personal, I think his ruling is valid. The logic is sound, but I think there should be some form of discussion as to the theory of how handseals actually work. Because having to use a handseal each time someone uses a shunshin is ludicrous as it has been shown from time to time that there is no necessary requirement for it.

Before we get into any debates, let me clarify my main point. it is this:

Handseals are a means to focus one's mind into forming chakra. It is not the direct cause of the formation of chakra. Therefore, someone with a high degree of skill in Ninjutsu or Genjutsu is capable of forming a technique with less or without handseals at all.

This is supported by evidence, of course.

1.) Sasuke required three handseals originally to perform Chidori, as he progressed from Part 1 to Part 2, he takes several levels in ability and can currently use Chidori in all variants without the use of handseals.

2.) This is the page on Chakra from the Naruto Wiki. Although I do agree that it may not count as strong evidence due to the fact that it can be edited by everyone, note that it says that handseals is only one of the methods used to manipulate chakra.

3.) The Water Dragon Missile Technique requires a full 44 hand seals (theoretically) before it is used. However, it's shown that Senju Tobirama required only one hand seal in order to trigger the technique. He also did not require an external source of water for it, which ultimately shows that the more skilled a user is in terms of ninjutsu, the less amount of handseals is required to fully trigger a technique.

In summation, it should be possible for any person skilled enough in chakra manipulation to use techniques with less handseals or no handseals at all. But note that this is only my side of an argument, I found a minor tick in a verdict that just made me think that this may become a major problem if not addressed now.

[Katsuo]

Valid points.

My interest is piqued.

I look forward to hearing what the Mods think.

(Another addition to that list, would be that Itachi has been shown performing various jutsu with either a simple motion of the hand (such as pointing), or as mentioned no hand seals.)

[Sandy]

I agree that signs are sometimes unnecessary because of both skill and repetition. The more you do the same thing, the better you become at it, and naturally you find ways to circumvent the steps. Shunshin, however, isn't one of them. Even if canonically it can be done with nothing but force of will, requiring both signs and being unable to use it in battle regulates what would otherwise be an unstoppable murder machine.

I don't often see it registered, but I always figured you could apply for jutsu that you're just so good with that they become second nature. Can you not?

[Hanzae]

Honestly, I'd think it takes time for a ninjutsu user to form shunshin regardless of a handseal. The time it takes for them to see an attack, concentrate enough chakra to perform said technique should be long enough for an fast attack to injure a person regardless. Human reaction is not lightning fast, even Michael Schumacker (fastest human response possible: 0.17 seconds) would be killed if an attack was unexpected. If we want to look at possible limitations of a technique, we should stick to alternatives with In Character explanations.

For Shunshin's case, wouldn't the overuse strain the leg? I mean, essentially you're forcefully driving chakra through the tenketsu (on the spot I might add) in your feet to help accelerate a motion. No matter how many times you practice it, that push would be incredibly straining on your leg. Much similar to how a hundred meter sprinter would tear his muscles if he ran for twice or three times his length at the same speed he ran during the first 100. So the problem with Shunshin could be addressed by breaking down a character's legs if they use it too much. Especially if their character has no emphasis on physical conditioning.

[Katsuo]

With that, though, you get into a whole new level of what should, could, or wouldn't happen.

I think Sandy has it: there's nothing stopping you applying for a no seal jutsu, if you can prove you're good enough with it and have shown you have used it a lot, ICly.

Besides... if you want to get 'realistic', forcefully changing your pupil to resemble a red mottled pattern doesn't sound healthy to me; or having bugs living in your body as a nest; or having a powerful entity living sealed within you...

I think you get the point.

[Hyūga Hayaku]

Where has shunshin been used without handseals? The only exception I could find was Raikage, but he had raiton armor and he had been building up his chakra consistently in anticipation for it, which leads me to believe its nothing to be played with.

[Genbō]

Doesn't Uchiha Sasuke, and Itachi use Shunshin without seals?

[Uzumaki Akimoto]

Well, A had to actively prepare Shunshin in his fight against Sasuke. There is a build up of chakra needed in order to use it. You can't just Shunshin all willy-nilly around the place. Contrary to popular belief, it's not used for traveling in the Manga.

Which is the basis of Tou's ruling. A had to prepare his chakra and use hand seals for Shunshin, as did anybody else who has ever used Shunshin. Whether or not it took exactly three hand seals for each person is whatever. But it's never been done in canon without them (except for A).

I'd also say that your examples don't really do much. Sasuke and Tobirama are not where the bar is set for the site, and nobody on this site should be compared to them in skill. Nobody on this site is that good, despite what some inflated egos might think.

P.S. I didn't read the comments after the initial post. So I probably repeated facts somewhere.

[Hanzae]

I'm proving a point that handseals are relative. You are trying to place a limit on who can use it, which is... in my opinion, not related to any of this stuff, and incredibly arrogant.

How good someone is in combat on the site is determined by the factors of skill (Genin, Chunin, Jonin etc.) and rank. That was the entire point of the rank reform. We wanted to give each and every individual member a chance to fight on equal grounds.

Don't compare us to a canon, especially since this site is AU.

[Dō]

Ninja A cannot do what Ninja B can do because Ninja A is not as skilled as Ninja B. This doesn't pertain to Ninja A being good at something else. I don't know where you got that notion. This entire topic is on hand seals, which pertain to ninjutsu, genjutsu, and chakra control. It does not pertain to stealth or taijutsu.

Examples:

Naruto was not as skilled as Jiraiya in using the Rasengan at the time because he needed a Kage Bunshin in order to give his chakra the rotation.

Sasuke was not as skilled as Kakashi in using Chidori at the time because Sasuke's chakra control then was poor, and he could only use the technique a minimal number of times.

When they learned those techniques, they were not nearly as skilled as their mentors. You're wrong is saying they would be according to my statement, since my statement had nothing to do with that. So we can all understand, my statement had to do with Sasuke and Tobirama at their current levels in the field we are discussing, which is chakra control.

How well somebody RPs does not make up for factors that still limit the capabilities of their characters. A ninjutsu specialist cannot be a taijutsu specialist, etc..

But again, what exactly are you trying to say? Joe Somebody can do whatever against another RPer. I didn't say this player couldn't beat this other player. I said the bar is not set at Sasuke and Tobirama. If you expect to make a character that is, right then and there, just as good as them, then you are fooling yourself.

I find it ironic that you're telling me not to compare these characters to the canon, when that's exactly what you've already done by bringing up Sasuke and Tobirama in the first place. You know, since there is nothing else to compare our characters to except those in canon. What exactly would you like me to compare them to? The Power Puff Girls?

[Hanzae]

...I'm sorry, did I hurt your feelings?

I do not expect my character to be as good as Tobirama or Sasuke. You are making that assumption.

I am saying that you do not need to be as skilled as Sasuke or Tobirama in order for us to reduce the amount of handseals in a technique.

Here, let me show you an example not pertaining to Powerpuff Girls:

A Genin needs five handseals to use a technique. Whereas a Jonin needs one instead. This is because the Jonin has more experience in using this technique than the Genin, therefore he is able to bypass four handseals because he is more experienced.

What I am trying to say has already been posted. Let me pinpoint it for you:

"Handseals are a means to focus one's mind into forming chakra. It is not the direct cause of the formation of chakra. Therefore, someone with a high degree of skill in Ninjutsu or Genjutsu is capable of forming a technique with less or without handseals at all."

Before this gets into a heated argument, I suggest we bring this back into a logical debate. My intention was to get clarification, not to offend you.

[Dō]

Why everybody assumes they are even capable of hurting anyone else's feelings is beyond me, but think what you will. My feelings were never hurt.

I never said you were. I said "if".

I saw that quoted information already, and I didn't think much of it, being that Kakashi and Zabuza still had to use the full forty-four hand seals to perform the Water Dragon Missile Technique at one point. Then two years later, Kakashi still uses the full forty-four hand seals. He's had two years to get better, and is still stuck at that cap.

It was always a logical debate. You didn't offend me.

[Tou-kun]

No one ever said handseals were required to create chakra with the exception of that focusing seal which can be bypassed. This seal is to create the chakra from stamina which is spiritual and physical energy which isn't merged into chakra yet.

www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-90/05/

Handseals are used to manipulate that chakra into the form which one wants. Everyone on this site, for all intents of purposes, needs them because very few of us are beasting characters comparable to Tobirama, Sasuke or any of those people. We will all need full handseals until some sort of IC merit is built up. Of course, the acceptions being Kage and characters occupying particular spots.

I never said that no one could reduce handseals. You don't HAVE to use handseals. It's just a means of helping you manipulate your chakra. The risk that comes with less handseals is the wasting of chakra. You either use too much chakra and waste that chakra, or do not manipulate the chakra correctly and the jutsu backfires or fails. Only people with exceptional chakra control are capable of bypassing handseals because they manipulate their chakra so well that they CAN do with less help in manipulating it. However, keep in mind, that even Tobirama uses a handseal for his techniques. Showing that even at the precipice of Suiton mastery, a handseal is STILL needed.

Now, the both of you need to stop showing lip before I have to discipline people. Consider this the verbal warning.

[Hanzae]

This is pretty much the answer I was looking for. Thanks.