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Post by Professor Badass!! on Feb 8, 2011 22:17:44 GMT -5
No.
Let’s be logical. Making jutsu, equipment, and the other IC stuff exclusive makes sense. Those things affect the continuity of the board, the setting that each and every one of us adds to for our RP experience. Those things should be regulated to whatever reasonable standard the staff comes up with.
But Face Claims? That’s silly.
Look. Legally, no one has copyright claims to any of the image work used here, no matter how much you touch it up with photoshop, crop n’ cut, or text you wrap around it unless it’s under the free use disclosure. Technically, all fan related works (fan fiction and RP included) unless it’s a deliberate satire, doesn’t fall under the free use agreement unless explicitly stated so. Just because you saw some cool anime or comic book character and chopped them up to use in your fan-fiction, something that doesn’t belong to you, someone unsuspecting is prevented from using the same image?
It’s not even in the forum rules. Konaha v1 was a bitch with all those un-written rules. Let’s not go that same path.
Face claims= Bastardized way of thinking and the only logic behind it is just to stroke some ego on artificial uniqueness.
We’re better than that.
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Post by | teru | on Feb 8, 2011 22:27:50 GMT -5
... So I suppose you wouldn't mind if 5 people suddenly decided they wanted to use your character's image? The faceclaim thing is nothing about ego. Its simply a courtesy. Images are hard to come by and when someone finds one that fits the mental picture in their head- yes it matters to them. Because it becomes their character's identity. Ideally everyone would have custom commission-art, but that's not the case. Besides, imagine the awkward IC dialogue it provokes when your character happens upon someone else with their face. Its not a rule and its not something I personally strictly enforce, but when I recall seeing the same image yes I will politely ask them to chose another. I've had people personally request I tell someone to change their image in a pending profile because it was their character someone else was using. I cant exactly say no to person A then yes to person B. I think you're overthinking this really.
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Post by Professor Badass!! on Feb 8, 2011 22:49:59 GMT -5
No, I wouldn’t I’d joke around to make a stink about it for lawls. But that’s about it. Someone else using the same image has no effect on my RP. It doesn’t change my character, their techniques, personality, etc. Nor does it affect my writing or my day when it’s all said and done.
I vehemently dislike the face claim logic/courtesy/whatever it’s being dressed up to be. If someone is that effected by someone use using the same image to the point their character’s identity is in question, they lose inspiration, muse, whatever then in my honest opinion something might be wrong? Possibly? Who knows?
Let’s just imagine this board is going to have a lifespan of a year or more. Can you imagine how often you’ll have occurrences of people using the same characters from popular anime/manga? It just seems silly to entertain the thought of moderating. The circumstances of similar appearances in the same thread is so phenomenally rare, I’ve never even seen happen on v1 with a much more active population.
I pick from uncommon characters usually, but if in the case someone has the same idea for an image, I should not be bared from using the same for my original concept for a character. Especially on something that doesn't belong to them anyway. What's next, font claims? Alignments?
But that’s just me.
Let's just nip this one in the bud, mkay?
And apologies if it's just something you enforce personally. Had I known and not suspected it was something the staff as a whole did, this would end up in your inbox, and not here.
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Post by | teru | on Feb 8, 2011 23:01:05 GMT -5
Well, its been suggested by a few people that we should enforce a faceclaim system similar to what we had on another site [Haitoku if you were on it]. Its not so much a personal policy as it is a- "Oh, I remember so and so using ____." I don't actively keep track of images, but if my memory is jogged then I'll ask they find another. You're right in the sense that it'd be impractical, even rediculous, to enforce this if V2 grew as large as V1 [though I doubt that].
No one would bother to keep tabs on how many Natsus, Whitebeards, Ichigos, and Hitsugayas running around. Though right now the site is small enough to where we shouldn't have character images overlapping if that makes any sense. There are enough pictures on the internet to where finding another character that hasn't already been taken shouldn't inconvenience anyone terribly. You'd be surprised at how important a character image is to a lot of people. There was a stink about people "swaggerjacking" fonts and profile layouts for a while on V1, let alone images. You can imagine ]:
I can't speak for the other profile staff, but as for now its simply me taking the interests of a good chunk of members into consideration.
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Post by Professor Badass!! on Feb 8, 2011 23:07:58 GMT -5
So, we're justifying petty claims over media with a first come-first served criteria that people don't legally own nor should feel entitled to?
Yeah, I think I don't have anything more to say to this. Thank you for your time.
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Post by Hayaka on Feb 8, 2011 23:23:32 GMT -5
Its not an issue of legality. As Hikari said, its a matter of common courtesy that many would like to see on the forum. Nobody's filing lawsuits over character image infringement.
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Post by Professor Badass!! on Feb 8, 2011 23:39:37 GMT -5
That is not the point. The legality issues were brought up to show how silly it is to think that grabbing an image to use should make it exclusive. You didn’t create it. It’s not “yours” to exempt from anyone else to also have/share/what have ye. I thought we got past hoarding all the sand in the sandbox.
Lupe Fiasco’s “The Coolest” is a theme song for one of my characters. Can I claim to be the only person who’s allowed to have that in their signature or profile? The lyrics are harmonious with the character’s mind set of selling themselves to the preverbal devil for fame and glory. The dark piano stabs and chorus express a level of dark undertones despite the glorified narrative of as long as you work to being “Cool”, everything will turn out fine. I intend to take the first and second verses into literal IC scenes to demonstrate the rush of giving into temptation. All these things mean worlds to my character, more so than the image used for them. Can I have the staff stomp out anyone who wants to use that song, or any song I include as the “theme” for my character?
It means a lot to me right?
Common courtesy is not always centered with the best logic behind it. If it were a matter of the common service for you to kill off all your characters, would you?
Face claims are purely egocentric. They only satisfy the person who has them with the “comfort” that no one else has or can have on the board’s lifespan their “image.” And I’ll say it again. If someone having the same image of your character has such an effect on your RP, or any at all, really-then you have a personal problem. Because as far as I’m aware, pixels and cosmetics don’t change writing style, concepts, the people you’re interacting with, and the story on a whim.
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Post by NAOTO on Feb 9, 2011 9:30:35 GMT -5
Well, how do the rest of you guys feel about face claims? If this is something you want or don't want now's the time to speak up.
Don't be shy. :[
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Post by Kumani Musho on Feb 9, 2011 9:31:48 GMT -5
I dont give a damn either way, someone takes my face I deal with it myself.
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Post by Ataisuru Sonzai on Feb 9, 2011 9:34:07 GMT -5
I've always figured there's been an unwritten courtesy about not taking someone else's face-claim if you found out about it. I've worked under that assumption, and have changed character appearances in the past before they were accepted.
I'm content with that continuing, if others are. It's up to the staff if they want a ruling/claim list, but I just search for unused avatars...
I don't mind either way.
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Kirin
[下忍] Genin
Triple Double No Assist.
Posts: 29
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Post by Kirin on Feb 9, 2011 11:02:20 GMT -5
Shimada, I agree with you.
But do you really believe that this is worth arguing over?
You state that having a face claim is egocentric. But starting up a discussion attempting to prove that you are right and they are wrong is also egocentric.
In short, while your premise is "Don't do this because it's an egocentric thing to do." You are also stroking your ego at the same time.
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Post by Ukyo on Feb 9, 2011 11:25:02 GMT -5
Kyuji wants FCs. :[
If a person doesn't care whether or not their FC gets used, then they could always not register them.
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Post by Kumani Musho on Feb 9, 2011 11:25:18 GMT -5
For the sake of discussion and getting this over with, I say keep the face claim for people who work hard and try to give their work a face and a name.
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Post by Ðr. Tran on Feb 9, 2011 11:32:33 GMT -5
[/i]" is like trying to say your the only one allowed to breath air. You cant own any of the images, unless you create them yourself (Which I have done/do). Anything you find online and use, is open for others to as well, in the laws of images that is. You cant claim anyone's face, considering that in our real world there are people that have no relation to each other, that look similar. I know of at least three people that look like me, one of them kinda creeps me out. I know of 100 people with my name, first and last, so there are other people who are like us out there. Saying you can be the only one in the universe is like saying Santa Clause is Hitler in disguise, it just don't work. Instead of worrying about who looks like who, I suggest the focus be on who is copying who. If I see someone using the same image I use for character/s, no biggie, whatever, but if that same person takes something I made like jutsu, history, etc etc then I got a problem. That should be the focus, on what we create, not what we find and use. Just a thought, think about it for a min.[/sup][/ul] D
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Post by odawara mamoru on Feb 9, 2011 12:05:53 GMT -5
So basically what I see is--there is absolutely zero harm in having FC's. Some people just don't like them because of whatever reason. Well, like jutsu, FC's can be treated just like first come first serve. If you get it, cool, if not, oh well.
Honestly, I don't mind if people use the characters I'm using, because if it bothered me so much, I'd just kill that character IC, or disfigure their face until it looked like JWoww or something.
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Post by Tenshi Kanna on Feb 9, 2011 12:07:15 GMT -5
For me, it's a common courtesy thing, as has been stated. And I think if a person has a problem with someone else using their face claim, they can always try and resolve the matter personally. Which, I mean talking.
In my opinion, people who edit their pictures or create something of their own, like me, are entirely entitled to withhold those images for themselves and can request someone else to be denied if they try to use them. Otherwise, we don't have a face claim here, but not using someone else's claim is just a nice thing to do.
IMO, anyway.
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Post by NAOTO on Feb 9, 2011 12:25:58 GMT -5
I feel like the point is being missed.
Its not about claiming ownership of an image. Its not about ego.
Its about their character's identity. The image is part of the identity. Everyone has a specific look in their heads for their character and when they finally find a picture that matches that its the next best thing to having drawn it themselves. This isn't about people "looking similar." It's to prevent scores of people from all having a similar concept as most people do tend to model their characters after their appearance. They just do. Their look is part of the package and can influence everything from personality to some parts of history to the way they're portrayed.
A lot of people pick the image before they do anything else and center the profile around it. Some people pick a specific image because they want to model the character after the person in that series, which then effects jutsu concepts and sometimes equipment.
I'm sure my friends in Jutsu know exactly what I'm talking about.
But at the end of the day everyone roleplays differently. I know for a fact that this matters to the majority simply because of the level of butthurt I've seen with some people over images and the trouble gone through to find them. It's important. Otherwise everyone would just write a paragraph description if it truly did not matter.
IMO- if you can't find another picture out of the entire internet, something is clearly wrong with you.
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Post by Uchiha Shinji on Feb 9, 2011 12:48:33 GMT -5
I want face claims as well.
Me and Kyuji both have puppeteers in Suna that are Jonin and have a role in the Kugutsu Buntai (Kyuji's character is a member and mine is an apprentice) and they both are "Tonou Tamekaze" from osy on deviantart. with pics that have barely any difference. And one can't claim it over the other because no one "face claimed it".
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Post by Ken. on Feb 9, 2011 13:00:36 GMT -5
I understand both sides of the discussion. One wanting their face claims much like Hikari's explanation and the other not deeming it an important thing because you can't put a stamp on something you don't own but also the availability of future application pictures. And after reading through the thread I kind of see the pros and cons of both, but personally the cons far outway the pros for discarding the face claim courtesy thing going on. As far as it goes the only thing I could suggest is making a facial claiming system and those who don't care simply don't claim it as was said above by Kyuji. Later on if availability of facial claims become an issue it'll be addressed I believe because we have competent staff that can handle issues, but I find it pointless to go and remove a courtesy that most people follow and count on in their character's creation.
Further I don't think it means a person has a problem if they can't have someone use the same facial claim as theirs seeing as what Hikari said, people develop their characters based off of those facial claims. I myself use pictures as a way of getting any full potential in my character ideas because seriously when you think about it some themes for characters can't fit just any face they need a specific type. If having a facial claim system makes me a person that has issues/problems then I guess I'm one screwy person (and no I'm not being grumpy ).
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Post by excellence on Feb 9, 2011 14:09:56 GMT -5
This is just my personal opinion, but I think the system should be implemented. The only reason I have is so that the site has a place to click and see each of the individual 'faces' being used. This assists people like myself, who wish to not go toe-stepping when someone has a specific 'face' claimed and does not wish for others to use it for whatever reason. With the large number of profiles accepted on the site, I think it would be convenient if someone could just click a link instead of having to go through every single one of the profiles seeing whether or not someone is using the face and contacting them to see whether or not they would mind that face being used.
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