Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Feb 16, 2011 20:25:57 GMT -5
A lot of people have probably been following the continuing story of one Kyūsei Reisha and her ambitious quest to be queen bitch of Konoha's past, present, and future. Well, at first myself, most of the admins, and even some completely unrelated members expressed distaste for her profile which had no shortage of feats of strength and historical significance.
But then we (myself and Tou) got to thinkin' that this might not be so bad. I mean, every village has its historical heroes, right? Minato wasn't just Hokage, he was also a well-respected and highly feared shinobi. Likewise, Chiyo wasn't just some senile old skinbag, yes? She pioneered many aspects of Suna's military that are still in practice today. Our forum has these as well, but we have a habit of forcing them to water down their profiles and earn their power in-character.
Well, this poses problems for some older characters who wanted to display their strength and influence over the course of their villages' history. So, we're implementing a new way to go about this, tentatively called the Icon System.
Basically, if you want (or already have) a character that has shaped the course of Insertvillageheregakure, go for it. Go crazy. Keep age restrictions and believability in mind of course, but we want you to create a shinobi that's larger than life and known the world over.
If we (the entirety of the staff who will be weighing in on these characters) deem this profile good enough, they will be made a custom canon — not unlike the Kage — and given rights to a few privileges normally reserved for those who work at it over the course of many threads (A-ranks and the like).
This is all hypothetical, by the by. Nothing is set in stone at the moment, hence why I'm leaving this thread open for discussion. Please include your ideas and suggestions for this system, but also remember to stay respectful. I want this to be a civilized discussion, not an argument. Thank you!
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Rokubi
[中忍] Chūnin
member is sexy
Posts: 64
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Post by Rokubi on Feb 16, 2011 20:33:50 GMT -5
I highly[/i] this system and think it is a great way to flesh out an AU site that has been trying to be like canon for a bit too long. Just a question though--
Would we make profiles for every icon? For instance, Naoto's mother who was apparently the shit, but is in a coma. Would Hikari need a profile for her?
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Feb 16, 2011 20:38:17 GMT -5
I would think not. There will likely be a limit to the number of active icons per village. You can say your great-great-grandfather ate rocks and shit lightning, but that doesn't mean he'll get chosen to be an icon.
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Post by Chino on Feb 16, 2011 20:39:37 GMT -5
Okay--just so we're clear--the 'icons' that are made each must have some sort of impact, whether positive or negative in the village. Something officially like proposing an idea that is in use now and had revolutionized the village. Not just someone who claims to be notorious for killing and fighting Jōnin at the age of five and shit, right? But people who made an impact and did something that stands today. Right?
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Feb 16, 2011 20:43:10 GMT -5
Right. We have enough mindless killers. We want people who are valued for their wise council as much as the strength of their arm. They need to have made a true, lasting impact on their village, something that won't be easily forgotten.
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Post by Chino on Feb 16, 2011 20:46:57 GMT -5
So by default my Nidaime would be one then, right? (Since well, he's the Nidaime), or would I need to state his claims and make things concrete?
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Feb 16, 2011 20:48:49 GMT -5
Certain existing characters likely already apply, but yes, you still have to go through the motions. Or maybe not. Again, the details haven't been fleshed out yet.
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Post by Chino on Feb 16, 2011 20:52:19 GMT -5
I like this idea as long as it remains sensible. Now! Let's see this site-wide stuff. ;[
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Post by Tou-kun on Feb 16, 2011 21:15:21 GMT -5
If I'm not mistaken, Odamaru falls under the custom canon clause of Kage as it is. So you don't really have to do anything if you don't feel like it.
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Post by Professor Badass!! on Feb 16, 2011 21:25:29 GMT -5
Can Queen Bitch of Konoha's Past, Present, & Future fit as a custom title? If so, that's mine.
I'm an advocate of limiting to how many active Icons can be present at one time. Mainly a figure that is altered based on site population, Icon per capita, and the overall progress of the site's storyline. Since it makes sense to have few Icons when the site only has moderate activity and the story is in limbo, then adding/allowing a few more as the density picks up and the plot requires more figure heads being involved.
At the same time I think you need to give pre-emptive examples of what the standard is to be. And I don't mean like "Tell me X reasons why this person should be an Icon" or "Explain forty years of their history in old English.(jokingly). I mean like show litterally what it takes to be an Icon. Whether you need to write up a profile example yourself, link others, use Naruto pedia to show what significant achievements you're going for. Then make the process an involved one.
The one thing I would hate for this system to devolve to is the bastardization of "Elite Groups" that happened on v1. At the same time I would also hate for anyone to feel slighted when they see one profile get "icon" status but not the other because of staff standard they aspired to meet, but wasn't communicated well.
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Post by Tou-kun on Feb 16, 2011 21:46:46 GMT -5
It won't devolve into anything. Allow me to take this time to clarify the process by which one becomes an Icon. You have to PM me, telling me what you have done which qualifies you to be an icon. I send that to the staff, and we deliberate, and then I get back to you and tell you if you can and cannot be an icon, and what and whatnot is going to contribute to such based on what you told me. THEN you get to make an icon profile. This is a completely staff-dependent system. No one can have one without our consensus.
Of course, this is dependent on a showing of skill with the form of rpz on the part of the applicant.
if there are further questions, feel free to raise them.
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Post by odawara mamoru on Feb 16, 2011 21:47:47 GMT -5
You don't need this.
You have a development and recognition board where people fill stuff out to be recognized for their achievements.
If anything, have a separate, stickied thread in each village with people recognized for achievements such as making a new poison, puppet, or what they're recognized for. But there's no reason to go making a whole new thing about icons and whatever, especially since most people who make said characters (like Sonzai, for example), will make them so... odd that even if the creators lost the character from inactivity, no one else would want them.
The icon thing is just a waste of time.
And to be honest, Canonly, no one has a track record like Shimada's character was going to have. Not at all. But on here, people tried for stuff that was reaching; and ultimately had to tone their stuff down.
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Post by Katsuo on Feb 16, 2011 23:00:50 GMT -5
The main concern I have, is whether these iconic characters will be considered board 'canons', in the same respect as current ones (like Kage), and as such will be available to others if the player goes inactive?
Or, are you going with the idea that there is a set list, and if someone disappears never to return, they are removed from the list (of X number of active icons at once, per Y location), and is replaced by a more active player - which results in the list being filled again?
Otherwise, this sounds fun, and hopefully people can remember that's all it's there for - fun.
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Post by Tou-kun on Feb 16, 2011 23:04:36 GMT -5
It will run as the Kage Custom Canon system runs.
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The Mad Hatter
[文民] Civilian
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Post by The Mad Hatter on Feb 16, 2011 23:23:55 GMT -5
*ahem*
I'm afraid, Tou, that there are probably some better ways of having it done. Just stepping in and slapping an already-existing system onto a brand new frame, while useful in some cases (Android OS), does not work for others (a painting, blueprints, RPGs).
No; this is something that needs to be thought about. The Custom Canon system, in terms of Icon Characters, is at best a piece of duct tape until a new, better solution can come up, in my humble opinion.
To help, here's a lil' bit of analysis:
Pros of Custom Canon system:
- Once the character is made, we all know who it is.
- If the RPer goes inactive, they can be replaced pretty easily.
- If an RPer goes inactive, the SL won't stall.
[/li][/ul] Cons of Custom Canon system: - Not all characters established as "custom canons" are the best of characters. Nobody wants to take control of what they think of as a "Mary Sue".
- Stifles creativity of the inheriting RPer
- Installs familiarity, yes, but can lead to monotony.
- Especially in the case of Icon Characters, can feel like original RPer's creativity and/or intellectual property is being stolen and used.
- Just as a side note, doesn't agree well with copyright laws. ;[
As you can see, the Custom Canon system does NOT, I repeat, NOT fit for Icon Characters as well as it does for, say, Kage and Leaders. It is a system created to make sure leadership and board-controlling positions remain filled, but as a result is the opposite of what we need for Icon Characters.
Now, Katsuo was talking to me: A system like THIS, with a limited number of Icon Characters (such as how there's only one Mokuton user, was originally only two Shikotsumyaku users before the ban was lifted, etc.) would work much better for icon characters. *cough* Not to mention that by taking the suggestions of members, the reputation of the site staff as mindful and respectful of members' opinions improves. *cough*Therefore, I would like to call it to a vote. Which system would the members and staff prefer for Icon Characters:
OR
*sits back to see how it all works out*[/font][/justify][/blockquote]
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Post by | teru | on Feb 16, 2011 23:34:02 GMT -5
I was going to post here, but he pretty much summed up my feelings. Why not just have a famous ninja list pinned up in the villages so people can see who's a big shot? To me it seems like this is much more trouble for something that's not even that much different to the system of fame we already have.
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Post by Tou-kun on Feb 16, 2011 23:51:11 GMT -5
Who's to say a character is a Mary Stu? All an icon is a character who has done something of the utmost importance for their village. That doesn't automatically make them any sort of way. No one's saying they are the best of characters. We, the staff, will sign off on what the character has done to be "iconic" and then the profile will be made. The profile still has to be approved, and such. So... I don't really know what you're talking about.
How can you just say that and not say how? How is it that inheriting a character stifles your creativity? All you're inheriting is a set personality and history, jutsu and equipment. Whoever inherits the character can do whatever they please with them though. So how is creativity stifled?
Excuse me for dismissing your point, but so what?
Once again, so what? You know what you're getting into when you make a custom canon. So you have no room to complain about it when you disappear randomly.
No one here has a copyright to anything.
Now, just to address all the naysayers--believe me, I could give two shits if this goes through. I really rather it doesn't. But the point of this is not to make me happy. I'd much rather Shimada's character, and all like it be denied and have to gain fame IC. But the fact remains that we are an AU, and there are important roles to be filled. The only people of influence cannot be the Kage. If that were so, then there really would be monotony. You can continue to disagree if you want, but keep in mind the one-dimensionalism that comes with such.
Neji, here's your verbal. Step out of line again and you will be removed.
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Post by Professor Badass!! on Feb 17, 2011 0:00:45 GMT -5
And to be honest, Canonly, no one has a track record like Shimada's character was going to have. Not at all. Orochimaru. I was going to post here, but he pretty much summed up my feelings. Why not just have a famous ninja list pinned up in the villages so people can see who's a big shot? To me it seems like this is much more trouble for something that's not even that much different to the system of fame we already have. I think the difference, from what I am understand is Fame is just what it is. Reputation and largely cosmetic filler to whether people would recognize you or not. Whereas the Icon ideal gives your character a solid role in the continuity of the site's plot and offers tangible rewards in addition to the responsibility of being made, literally, a reoccurring character. On an AU, said character fills of the role of those "heroes" or "legends" that the other characters in the series modeled after, aspired to be, loathed intensely, or was widely accredited for their accomplishments in the world around them. Toping it all off, had the bite to go with the bark.
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Post by Katsuo on Feb 17, 2011 0:04:08 GMT -5
I vote for the rotating roster. However, I completely disagree with this: Neji, here's your verbal. Step out of line again and you will be removed. I feel he gave points that others might also agree with, which could be considered valid. I think the difference, from what I am understand is Fame is just what it is. Reputation and largely cosmetic filler to whether people would recognize you or not. Whereas the Icon ideal gives your character a solid role in the continuity of the site's plot and offers tangible rewards in addition to the responsibility of being made, literally, a reoccurring character. On an AU, said character fills of the role of those "heroes" or "legends" that the other characters in the series modeled after, aspired to be, loathed intensely, or was widely accredited for their accomplishments in the world around them. Toping it all off, had the bite to go with the bark. Agreed.
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Feb 17, 2011 0:07:41 GMT -5
And to be honest, Canonly, no one has a track record like Shimada's character was going to have. Not at all. Orochimaru. I was going to post here, but he pretty much summed up my feelings. Why not just have a famous ninja list pinned up in the villages so people can see who's a big shot? To me it seems like this is much more trouble for something that's not even that much different to the system of fame we already have. I think the difference, from what I am understand is Fame is just what it is. Reputation and largely cosmetic filler to whether people would recognize you or not. Whereas the Icon ideal gives your character a solid role in the continuity of the site's plot and offers tangible rewards in addition to the responsibility of being made, literally, a reoccurring character. On an AU, said character fills of the role of those "heroes" or "legends" that the other characters in the series modeled after, aspired to be, loathed intensely, or was widely accredited for their accomplishments in the world around them. Toping it all off, had the bite to go with the bark. What he said.
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