Obligatory PSA Feedback.

[Professor Badass!!]

My own vehement distaste for the PSA is non-withstanding, at least in lieu of the greater objective to just skip the middle-man conflict and immediately to a resolution. However, there really, and I mean REALLY needs to be some concrete clarity on what the staff(or just Kyuji) is asking for in order to speed up the jutsu process-considering it is the longest(yet most active) inter-medium between have a character equipped for the RP.

Points 2 and 6 contradict each other. You ask us not to register a lot of techniques but at the same time don’t want us to register techniques often, which is a conflict of interest if someone wants to register anything near the Jounin cap-even half way. What’s a good limit? How often? And if the workload is really that much too where jutsu is being stalled by frequency-why aren’t there more people involved with the work process?

Point 4 contradicts point 5. We can’t use “a wizard did it” principle so when we resort to science we stall the process even longer because of research required. Wikipedia isn’t considered a credible source by the staff apparently (or just Kyuji) despite being the closest rival to the most accurate index in the world with a 256 year legacy-Britannia. I dare anyone to say “use common sense” when we’re talking about making jutsu to fit a setting that on a habitual basis breaks its own lore and ravages physics like loose women. I know we can’t expect jutsu mods to be quantum theorists but can you at least give us an idea how much science or not we’re supposed to deliver before either the process is being stalled out of spite or lack of know how?

Number 5 seems extremely irrelevant. The thread is about what will slow down the processing of jutsu, not necessarily the plausibility. Of course everything doesn’t have to be a blood-line. But no where, not in the jutsu rules, not in the guidelines, no where on the general rulings of the site gives us anything on what fits the criteria of being a blood-line or not. Don’t expect people to follow standards that are not communicated to the point of being easily accessible.

The intent of the PSA was probably well-natured and it's a good start honestly, though there's quite a lot more involved to giving the members the right tools/options to making the staff job easier, as well as some critique necessary for the administration to do their own job effectively.

Flame on.

[odawara mamoru]

1) I don't see how 2 & 6 contradict one another if people aren't going balls to the wall with their character(s) jutsu. Canonly, even the majority of Jonin we see only carry around an arsenal of a handful of jutsu (their are exceptions of course, like Kakashi), but currently the staff allow people to register like... 20+ for a Jonin, 14ish for Chunin, and like 6-10 for a Genin. If people actually sat back, planned, and strongly built around what they consider to be their characters strengths instead of just trying to fill in every single jutsu slot they can imagine, chances are the staff, Kyuji, or whoever wouldn't even be bringing this to the boards attention.

I'll use my characters as an example:

Ujigan Shinpachi

Oolong

Bushidō Genji

Now, with the exception of Genji who has around 7 jutsu, the other two have a total of one. Granted, I'm going to be giving Shinpachi a few more, but he's not going to have an enormous amount of jutsu and he's arguably the oldest (where experiences and the like would factor in, mind you) character on the site. And then... then you have people who make characters that are swordsmen, have a KG, are medical geniuses, and whatever, and then you see them applying for 10 techniques of each said category, skyrocketing their jutsu amount up to 30+ when they in all honesty could probably cut it down to 4 from each and have around 12 jutsu. For one reason or another, the majority of people stack their characters and try to have as many jutsu as the staff allows them. Very few are actually quite the opposite.

2) If I, or anyone wanted to, they could go into Wikipedia and edit and/or add stuff that's complete theory, untrue, etc. That's why it should not be trusted. If you're trying to use science to back up whatever you're trying to do, do yourself and the mods a favor a link to something with a .org in it. And--even if some of the information on Wikipedia is correct, 99% of people who try to use science to back up their claims to having this or that don't realize that the science they're trying to use to help them get this or that accepted, in reality, will hurt if not kill their character outright if accepted.

And to be frank, it's places like wikipedia that make doing jutsu such a chore. Everyone goes on there, then comes here thinking they're a scientist who has all the answers for whatever they're trying to get... only for a jutsu mod to do further research into the subject, which more times then not ends up seeing the jutsu applicant with a big fat denial foe whatever tomfoolery they were trying to get accepted.

3) Bloodlines are supposed to be rare, and to be frank, are feared and highly sought after by enemy countries. Obviously it's almost impossible to monitor who has one and doesn't, but again, the majority of people want some bloodline that's so broken it will make heads spin. It's lame, and I understand why the mods are tired of seeing a thousand of them.

[Hikoshirō Sadamune]

Why would the staff bring in more jutsu mods when not everybody can properly do the job? The only other people that are qualified don't want to do it, because they don't want to deal with the bull that Kyuji outlined in that post and more.

[Ken.]

Firstly off I'd like to say that the P.S.A was nice and explained to people that are always like "OMFGBBQ WHY MAH JUTSUS NOT APPROVEDEDED YETZ!?" Although, like Shimada stated some of pieces of it kind of contradict the other. But, also like Oolong said people do register a shitload of jutsu either in burst-fire increments or in giant wall-posts (which I sadly will admit I'm guilty of). As far as people registering 30+ jutsu I think that really falls down on the Rank Jutsu Limit thing they have set where a Jonin could have up to a high amount of registered jutsu. My only suggestion in order to curb that is to put an age rule on it; somehow I doubt that a 20-25 year old Jonin having 20-25 jutsu in their arsenal, but then again that could just be me.
--Personally I feel that I don't register anything often at all where at most I have two registrations going at once. I may be one of those jerkoffs that registers a slew of things at once but I don't expect them to look at it in the week and give me an answer the following day after; instead I wait for at the least three weeks to a month, yes a month if they have a lot to take care of and I still don't get pissy. I know that I registered a lot and I have patience and also, I don't register specifically for a character that often whereas I usually register things generally (for open-clan or site use).

As far as Bill-Nye the Science Guy explanations versus Dumbledore Pimped my Jutsu I can't really say to much on that. There have been times myself included where Jutsu have denied because there wasn't enough "meat" or science to it and it appeared too "mystical" and there are times where too much science made it moot to register and would kill the character as Oolong said. Where do you balance it is the real question. As Shimada said we're dealing with a world where physics are only nice when they want to apply them and magic is damn near what you'd have to call half of the stuff.
--Personally I try to stay as far away from science as a wicked witch stays away from a nice warm shower seeing as I'm far from the best with the stuff although I know some spickle spackle here and there. I'm not saying the staff should hold hands but seriously just as hard as it is for them to read the stuff and figure out what the hell is going on, it's hard for us when we get denied, get a reason why it's denied if they feel like explaining it it might be explained technically, and then be told to "Fix it".

I agree with Oolong. It took my own KG to be retconned a week or so after it was approved and a sit-down with Tou over AIM and him pretty much explaining that this isn't that so you don't need it to do that. And to be quite honest since then I haven't registered or even felt like registering a K.G because I know the difference in what makes something a K.G and what makes it a simple jutsu. So sadly, the staff might have to make another PSA or whatever to explain that a bloodline is genetic and jutsu can be taught where from this point could probably achieve what the member wants. Gotta' realize that one Joe doesn't see what another Joe does.

[Professor Badass!!]

If players designed jutsu to serve a broader purpose than have a specific technique to manipulate say water jutsu in 15 different ways, then that would be a start to minimize the large quantity of techniques. Especially considering that most fights never last long enough to use one’s entire repertoire. Perhaps that’s an example that can be set in the next guide or some such. But when you set a margin to say a Jounin can have up to 20+ jutsu, why is anyone surprised, upset, or even concerned that majority of the player base shoots for that mark? You can either curb the cap or artificially screen so that the closer one is to achieving the roof of their jutsu arsenal, the more scrutiny behind each technique. Regardless, if it’s a problem to the point a staff member is going to make a public statement about it- a long term solution should be on the table. Otherwise, what’s the point?

Having an issue with the volume of jutsu because of a guideline set by the administration seems to be on the lines of crying over spilled milk.

The abundance of science used wrongly in a jutsu can cripple someone more than empower their technique but then again, if you attach science remotely to the mechanics of Naruto, ninja should be breaking bones from the G-forces of a Shunshin. But a lot of times the mechanics of say a unique jutsu, if just to say “chakra did it” aren’t enough, even when explained by the vague terms and methodology of the Naruto universe. Why do I need to explain in depth why my jutsu grants me super strength when apparently in the same universe my eyes can send things across the time-space continuum?

I’m not saying Kyuji or anyone else is wrong to deny things based on stuff that clearly doesn’t work or is absent of a logical explanation. I’m highlighting that it’s a catch-22 to tell a person that “magic”(which is all chakra really is) isn’t enough so bring out some logic…but not that much or your jutsu gets canned.

Yes, Bloodlines are supposed to be rare. The point is what the criteria of what can be a bloodline and what can just simply falls in line as Hijutsu. There’s nothing in the jutsu guidelines to say that and just claiming “They’re supposed to be rare” isn’t much of a reference. Jounin are supposed to be rare but I bet there’s the most popular rank of ninja on the site, despite attempts to give them a more ‘elite’ appeal.

@olafsdottir

Doing jutsu isn’t so complicated to the point it can’t be taught or given a guideline to fall under, just like any other job. Any errors in another’s process can be critiqued, all reference material is a click away, and everyone-players and staff included- are quick to provide feedback in a moment’s notice. It’s just glorified fan speculation, not a professional skill.

[Hikoshirō Sadamune]

Mar 7, 2011 19:19:24 GMT -5 Hikoshirō Sadamune said:

Why would the staff bring in more jutsu mods when not everybody can properly do the job? The only other people that are qualified don't want to do it, because they don't want to deal with the bull that Kyuji outlined in that post and more.

You did nothing to affect the meaning of this post.

[Professor Badass!!]

Mar 7, 2011 21:07:35 GMT -5 Hikoshirō Sadamune said:

You did nothing to affect the meaning of this post.

Your post, to me at least, has no other meaning than the conditional case of:

1) Not everyone is qualified to do X Job
2) Qualified persons to do X Job do not want to do the job in the first place.

I wasn’t trying to change, affect or alter the meaning of that at all. I just explained why I don't agree with it, or more accurately, that if points 1 & 2 are a fact, then teach people to fit the prerequisites.

[Hikoshirō Sadamune]

That's a waste of time. If you can't figure it out by yourself, then you shouldn't be a mod.

[Professor Badass!!]

Well, at least we clearly know your opinion on the matter. Thank you.

Personally I consider it an investment. Otherwise, you end up validating to the points you mentioned earlier-where we have only a limited pool of people to use for management duties. Then when those "qualified" persons refuse the potion, then the ones who are motivated can't spread out the workload as much. Thus leading to the pace members are inclined to complain about.

God forbid one, even worst -several- have RL obligations or take breaks. Such blasphemy.

[Hikoshirō Sadamune]

You treat it like having only a few people to handle it is a bad thing. It's really not.

[Professor Badass!!]

I know it's not. Additionally I recognize that running on a skeleton shift has it's own set of vulnerabilities as just much as a large roster has the problem with tighter quality control. I just don't believe we've currently found a harmony between the two just yet. The PSA thread only fortifies my concerns.

[Hikoshirō Sadamune]

Three people is not a skeleton shift. At all. What ths PSA means is that people are just registering massive amounts of stupid at high velocity.

[Professor Badass!!]

And the Feedback on the PSA was asking for clarity, as in a definition of what equals "excessive" by the staff standards in regarding how often jutsu should be applied, how many, technique length and logic content. All of the following were absent. The thread offered nothing in the terms of solid numbers of guidelines other than "just don't do it."

It's nothing much. If Kyuji(or any of the staff) don't want jutsu sent in at "stupid high velocity" does that mean a courtesy to limit to 5 jutsu a post? Maybe a post a week or more? Anything along those lines does far more than just posting out opaque concerns and expecting people to fall in line.

[Hikoshirō Sadamune]

Or you could stop registering more things as soon as they approve the last stuff. That would be a start.

[Professor Badass!!]

Perhaps. It's not something I do but I'm hardly the best example. Still, it's more of a point of reference than what we had before. Ironically enough these seems reminiscent of the "Jutsu days" of v1 (No jutsu on say, Mondays or such). Not entirely through strict ruling as much as apparent consequences for not abiding to the courtesy.

[Tou-kun]

I'm going to need the two of you to stop with your passive aggressive banter. It's not a good look.

Seriously, the problem arises with the VOLUME of threads. You can say we're crying over spilled milk, and pardon me, but we honestly don't care. If people didn't register so much in so little time, jutsu would run very smoothly. I remind you that we're all growing up, studying for graduate school, have jobs, etc, and simply cannot devote the time to doing jutsu, or training new staff, or groveling with old members who could do the job to actually do so. So when we have the time to actually do jutsu, we appreciate not having to go through EVERY jutsu like it's a textbook of microbiology. It's selfish, perhaps unfair, but just how it works regardless.

Most of the issues in the PSA arise because of the volume. Like I said, if we didn't have so much nonsense to sort through, nothing would really be a problem. So yeah, your suggestion of a grace period between registrations is much appreciated. I'd appreciate if members would limit their posts in the jutsu thread per character to once a week, two tops.

Oh, and seriously. Kyuji's point 1 is so spectacular. I cannot tell you how many times I've closed windows on people because they ramble about the great history of their technique and other stuff and spend about two sentences explaining the technique. If you want to put background into your jutsu, put two sentences top. Otherwise, I don't want to hear anything about how great your daddy was and how he taught it to your mommy and she taught it to you. Get in, get out, everyone's happy.

Carry on.

[Katsuo]

You could put that in the guide.

- One Jutsu update per week, per character, with a maximum of five (5) individual Jutsu per update.

Or something.